Campaign Notifications

Since we have the start date of the campaign rapidly approaching. I will need players rosters by Friday. It will be a 2000pts roster, no duplicate units outside the Troops FOC. Players must also outline what their avatar is. We will be rolling for abilities on Friday for everyone's Avatars. Disorder has chosen it's General, as I've stated before, if there are no volunteers for a General for Order, straws will be drawn.

Do you need us to post/email the rosters or should we just show up to the store with them?

Also, if we can't have duplicate units outside of the Troops selection, does that mean I can't use the two Valkyries that I built? Only the one? 'Cause that would suck...

correct me if im wrong, but cant you get 2 in a formation?

what about the orks its a little hard not to duplicate units or does different wargear count?

Yes, you can. But I'd REALLY rather not take them as a squadron if I don't have to.

And if I did have to take them as a squadron then I wouldn't want my Devil Dogs to be in a squadron, which then goes back to the "no duplicate units" problem.

I don't really see how having duplicate units is a problem any more in the first place. About the worst thing you can do with duplicate units is double lash, double Vindi and since Jay's the only person who could/would do that, and he's created the campaign, I just don't see how someone bringing two Predators, Valkyries, Battlewagons, etc, etc really makes anything less friendly. It's not like Jay would accept someone with a super-beardy campaign roster to play anyhow...

We need to allow a member from each time to reject opponent army lists on the basis of composition then.

The "good guy" side is up against the 4 multiples of the best MEQ variant book, orks, and guard. While guard are cancelled out by being on both sides, the problem still stands that the "bad guy" side can go further down the path of bad composition

Since this is a campaign, each army should be based around a theme, and no your theme cannot be "winning". I'll be making my army themed but haven't decided which way yet.

I just dont want to see multiple loota squads, any nobs on bikes, more than 1 lash prince total on that side, multiple monstrous creatures in any evil army, multiple vindicators, multiple oblitarator squads, a nob squad with feel no pain and cybork bodies, more than 1 battlewagon, multiple leman russ demolishers, more than 3 leman russes total, amd other stuff I'm not thinking of cause im tired.

I back this up by saying that I dont want to see a good guy army with more than 1 land raider, more than 1 vindicator, more than 10 terminators, more than 5 models with storm shields, more than 1 wraithlord, more than 1 ship with holofields, more than 1 squad of: harlequins, firedragons, close combat termies, blood claws.

The reason being for this is that I dont want the campaign to somehow involve the most ridiculous armies possible from the 40k universe, they wouldnt all be at the planet at the same time. Army composition should be used to create lists that will cause creative and interesting play, not lopsided massacres

now that makes sense for a sec i thought i would have to bring two boyz mobs and some grots for a 2k roster

Exactly, David.

I'm totally for having fun, themed armies for the campaign. It's just that I don't think the "no duplicates" rule really helps that cause. It's really a hold-over from 4th edition Hobby tournaments where every good army had two minimum-sized troops choices and then brought 3 tanks and 3 uber elite choices. There aren't really any hard and fast rules for composition anymore (other than some of the examples you gave, and even then I think some of your examples are going a bit far).

In most cases it's not the individual units that make an army un-fun to play against, it's the combination of the chosen units. Now granted there are a very select few units in the game that are over the top no matter what (Lash Demon Princes and Nob Bikers, for example), but considering that Jay and Russel are the only people that could bring these units, and I know for a fact that Jay wouldn't since he's put this whole together, and Russel wouldn't 'cause he doesn't own any Nob Bikers.

And if it makes you feel any better, David, I don't plan on bringing a single Leman Russ tank in my 2000-point roster. It's a themed rogue Inquisitor force w/ the Inq. Lord as my avatar, his retinue, some IG Veteran squads, an assassin for lulz and to make up for the (poopy) Inq. Lord, a pair of Valkyries to act as personal transports for the Inq. and another "bodyguard" squad of IG vets, and a few other misc. items to flesh out the rest of the roster (and add much needed anti-vehicle support!).

Colby, taken into consideration, but the thing is, you knew about the composition specifications longbefore, and we even discussed about them, why is it only now that it causes some concern? I'm going to keep the composition set as it is. I don't feel it takes away from anyone else's army. It does, however provide a challenge to some people in terms of writing up a roster. Remember it is just a roster, depending on the amount of points you get to fight with, determined by your General, you may not get to use all the units anyways.

Actually, this is the first I've heard of us not being able to bring duplicate non-troop units. If I knew before hand, I wouldn't have banked on bringing two Valkyries. Now, granted, I can solve the problem myself by making the second Valk a Vendetta instead (same cost) or by bringing them as a squadron, but I was looking forward to modeling the 2nd Valk with the counts-as "assault cannon" multilasers and missile pods. If people are okay with the second Valk looking that way, but counting as a Vendetta (the triple twin-linked Lascannon version) then that's fine by me.

Worst case scenario is that I bring them as-modeled, but in a squadron, which I'm really hesitant to do. Keeping two models that big withing 4-inch coherency whilst maneuvering them where they need to be could be a huge PITA. Not to mention that whole "immobilized counts as destroyed" BS.

I personally have no issue with proxies, and I'm not disallowing proxies either. Basically, it's really up to your opponent.

Vendetta it is, then.

I wasn't planning on ever using one of these due to my general dis-like of Lascannons, but if everyone's cool with me proxying then I might as well give it a shot.

Which brings me to my next question:

Do we need to email/message our rosters to you, Jay, before Friday, or are we all just going to show up on Friday and see what everyone else is bringing?

In all honesty it doesn't bother me. You can PM it to me, or email me or bring it to me on friday.

I think more important than issues with duplication would be for us as a community to go through the hard work of developing some sort of concrete composition scores in general. Taking two or three squads of ravenors for fun or because its a themed army is not abusive, just the opposite. Taking two or even 3 lashes becomes a problem very quickly, just as triple-falcon lists, the guy taking 3 identical winged nurgle princes with the flamer ability and deep striking, the person spamming defilers or making lists that are nothing but identical tau HQ and elite options, etc.

No offense to what we are doing, which is awesome and still in relative infancy, but anything that has no composition scoring whatsoever is going to intrinsically pretty (poopy) and moves pretty overwhelmingly to armies that don't resemble the fluff and move away from a lot of the cornerstones of what make the game fun to play (like giving everyone a roughly equal chance to win based on the skill of the player, instead of determing before people ever start playing based on whether or not one or the other happened to start collecting one of the armies that GW didn't deign to balance or playtest well).

If we could accomplish this in a way that made everybody happy, and continue to work on our outlines over time, we would manage what only a few communities have managed to do and improve the competitiveness and fun of our tournaments at the same time. I advocated this when we started thinking of a club and, as it's become more apparent than ever that 5th edition 40k codexes are going to be as if not more so unbalanced than the time of 4th edition, I think it's more important than ever to start thinking about this and working on it together instead of ignoring the issue.

Yeah there would be a lot of debating in a thread about it but that could still be fun in a constructive sort of way about where the line is, and I think in cases where people comprised on a unit and guidelines there would be a sense of teamwork and accomplishment as a result rather than bad blood.

I also think it wouldn't be THAT complicated, since people mostly only have issues with units or lists that are BLATENTLY overpowered, and most of these those of us who play a lot can start naming pretty quickly from memory.

While I agree with you for the most part, Nick, the idea of the campaign was that A) people would bring themed, fluffy armies and that B) everyone would get a chance to see everyone elses rosters before we started and that potentially un-friendly units would be edited or removed before we got started.

I'm really not sure where the "no duplicates" thing came from, as this thread was the first I had heard of it. I'm okay with it for now as the only duplicate unit I had was my Valkyries, but this is created an example of when having duplicate units outside of the Troops selection is perfectly themed, fluffy, and friendly. Thus is why I said we need to work out different standards and guidelines for putting together themed lists that are also friendly (because it's certainly possible to create themed lists that are totally hard-core; see: Ork Biker Army from Hell or that IG list I posted recently in the Army Lists forum).

I could start listing ideas, but I don't think this is the proper place for it.

Zreggun wrote:

While I agree with you for the most part, Nick, the idea of the campaign was that A) people would bring themed, fluffy armies and that B) everyone would get a chance to see everyone elses rosters before we started and that potentially un-friendly units would be edited or removed before we got started.

I'm really not sure where the "no duplicates" thing came from, as this thread was the first I had heard of it. I'm okay with it for now as the only duplicate unit I had was my Valkyries, but this is created an example of when having duplicate units outside of the Troops selection is perfectly themed, fluffy, and friendly. Thus is why I said we need to work out different standards and guidelines for putting together themed lists that are also friendly (because it's certainly possible to create themed lists that are totally hard-core; see: Ork Biker Army from Hell or that IG list I posted recently in the Army Lists forum).

I could start listing ideas, but I don't think this is the proper place for it.

I don't know much about the campaign at all, was just sounding off on the topic in general since it was something that I've felt was something important for us to talk about since before we officially got started. If somebody who is actually in Sugar Land makes the thread I'll be more than happy to chime in (maybe after the themed campaign is over.

I agree that no duplicates at all hurts a themed list more than any other kind.

I'd like to use this thread as general notifications for the Campaign only. Could a mod please purge the thread of OTT posts. Greatly appreciated.

Now, on to business.

Gentlemen, welcome to the Angry Marines first Campaign. Thank you for those who have signed up. Introducing the players;

Disorder:
General: Tory
Lt.'s: Jay, Russel, Angelo, Colby, Joe

Order:
General: David
Lt.'s: Peter, Chris, Jack, Alan.

Note: If both generals could make it today at the store (5/19/09) I would like to make prelimenary movements on the map.

Battle Notifications and Battlefield Specifics for The Campaign:

Jay Vs Chris - Stalemate Battle - roll on stalemate mission set

Jack Vs Russel - Stalemate Battle - roll on stalemate mission set

Peter Vs Colby - Random Encouter - Roll on regular missions set found in the 5th ed 40k rulebook.

Your Generals SHOULD be PM'ing you your points values.

@ Jack & Peter:

I still have NOT received your list and we need to have you roll for your abilities. Please contact me.

General Announcement:

Week 1 is "The Ground War," be wary where you set foot.

The rules set will be in GW store, I will have it there by Wednesday the latest.

GM: Game notifications:

In regards to the slight delay in the first phase of the campaign, the next movement phase will not take place until the last two remaining games have been played or by Tuesday of next week, whichever occurs first.

Jack & Russel: If you could please get in touch with one another to schedule your game. Also please make note during your game in regards to models/ units lost, as well as units killed etc.

Dave: Please let me know who your pinch hitter is going to be as well as a list if Chris has to back out.

Chris: Please let us know if your still going ot be able to participate of if you need time off. Our sincerest wishes to you man.

Turn 1 Closing Notifications:

*Mines have been effectively cleared*

* Forces of Order have successfully captured the Repair Station
* Forces of Order have successfully captured the Weapons Depot
* Forces of Order have successfully fought for and control the Starport of Annoyance
* Forces of Order have successfully fought for and control the Manufactorium of Hate.

* Forces of Disorder have successfully captured the Repair Station
* Forces of Disorder have successfully captured the Weapons Depot
* Forces of Disorder are in Retreat from the Starport of Annoyance
* Forces of Disorder are in Retreat from the Manufactorium of Hate

Turn 2 Opening Notifications:

*High Command has issued a warning! Expect heavy anti-air resistance!*

* Forces of Order have lain Siege to Hive City Tempestus
* Forces of Order have lain Siege to Hive City Angrius
* Forces of Order are under attack at the Starport of Annoynace
* Forces of Order are under attack

* Forces of Disorder have lain Siege to Hive City Malicious
* Forces of Disorder have Assaulted the Forces of Order at the Starport of Annoyance
* Forces of Disorder have Assaulted the Forces of Order

Turn 2 Notifications:

* Forces of Order have successfully captured Hive City Tempestus
* Forces of Order are in Retreat from the Starport of Annoyance - Warning, the Startport has been lost!

* Forces of Disorder have successfully assaulted the Starport of Annoyance - Congratulations, the Starport has been captured!

End of Turn 2 Notifications:

* Forces of Order have successfully captured Hive City Tempestus
* Forces of Order have successfully captured Hive City Malicious
* Forces of Order are in Retreat from the Starport of Annoyance - Warning, the Startport has been lost!


* Forces of Disorder have successfully assaulted the Starport of Annoyance - Congratulations, the Starport has been captured!
* Forces of Disorder have successfully captured Hive City Angrius

Turn 3 will be done on Tuesday 6/8/09 If both Generals could please be present for it.

Also for the Generals, as a reminder, all experience and levels acquired during a turn are not in effect until the beginning of next turn. So all the experience you have gained on Turn 2 is now in effect for Turn 3. Experience gained in Turn 3 will be in effect at the beginning of Turn 4 and so on etc.

Turn 3 Opening Notifications:

**Incoming Transmission**

**We will be conducting nighttime operations**

* Forces of Order have lain Siege to the Starport of Annoyance
* Forces of Order are under attack by Forces of Disorder
* Forces of Order are under attack by Forces of Disorder
* Forces of Order are under attack by Forces of Disorder
* Forces of Order have been ambushed by Traitor PDF
* Forces of Order are under Siege at Hive City Angrius

* Forces of Disorder are laying Siege to Hive City Angrius
* Forces of Disorder are under attack at the Starport of Annoyance
* Forces of Disorder have Assaulted the Forces of Order
* Forces of Disorder are under attack by the Forces of Order
* Forces of Disorder are under attack by the Forces of Order
* Forces of Disorder are under attack by the Forces of Order

Turn 2 Notifications:

* Forces of Order have successfully defended Hive City Angrius
* Forces of Order are in Retreat from the Forces of Disorder
* Forces of Order have successfully repelled the Forces of Disorder

* Forces of Disorder are in Retreat from the forces of Order
* Forces of Disorder are in Retreat from Hive City Angrius
* Forces of Disorder have successfully repelled the Forces of Order

Because of the importance of the battle between Allen and I, turn 4 will not commence until the outcome of that battle has been decided.

AoB,

Can you post the fights and points for the battles this coming week. Thanks

Daniel -- 1500 Defending vs. Russel -- 2000 attacking

Alan -- 1750 attacking vs. Joe -- 2000 defending

Parker -- 1500 attacking vs. Colby 2000 defending

Peter -- 1500 attacking vs. Jay 2000 defending


I think these are the games, I dont remember because Jay has the sheet, but if I'm guessing right, its this.